So this past weekend we had a pretty great hunt out at the Jolon Ranch. We had four hunters in camp, all looking primarily for meat hogs.
Three of the hunters, Matt, his son Chris, and Matt’s brother John are all from the Bay Area (special mention to Josh, by the way, Chris’s brother who was too young yet to shoot a hog… but what a trooper!). Being brand new to the hunting game, they haven’t had the opportunity to get out and pick up their own rifles yet. Instead, we made arrangements for them to use our ranch guns, but they’d need to pick up ammo.
To cut the story fairly short, they ended up using our ammo for the hunt, since the stuff they picked up wasn’t a good match for our guns. Even so, we broke theirs out later to do a little target shooting, which is when I got a real shock. They’d asked at the shop (a shop in SF to remain unnamed for now) specifically for lead-free ammunition. Well, wouldn’t you know, some idjit sold them Winchester’s Ballistic Silvertips. Sure, the name of the ammo says nothing about lead, but “silvertip” doesn’t mean the bullets are made of silver… for dog’s sake!
I guess the moral of the story might be simply, “caveat emptor.”
But honestly, at some point shouldn’t we be able to have the least little bit of faith in the vendors who supply us?
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Thanks for sharing this story, Phillip. It’s good to get information out when things like this happen as they do happen from time to time. When shooters and consumers realize that it happens though we become more educated and aware that we need may have to do a little research into the products and services we buy. A good lesson.
I also wanted to say high to Michael. We had a good chat on the phone today about Native Hunt and a few other things business related and hunting related. He reminded me to stop by and enter the Hunt of the Month Black Tail drawing.
We don’t have Black Tail up here in Wisconsin where I’m from, but if it’s everything I love about whitetail hunting I’m sure it’d be a blast. Especially to come down to the Native Hunt ranch and meet all of the great people Michael talks about.
Thanks and I love the new blog.
Dayne Shuda
102 Marrs St.
Suite #3
Chippewa Falls, WI 54729
715.218.2731
Thanks for the note, Dayne!
I agree, and honestly, while I wasn’t surprised at what happened to these guys, this is the first time I’d actually witnessed it myself. I know a lot of employees at these chain sporting goods stores aren’t well grounded in the gear they sell, but something like this could have caused a real problem for our clients if they’d been stopped and checked by the game warden (this area is in the no-lead zone).
I think you’d enjoy a CA blacktail hunt. Unlike most of the whitetail hunting I did back east, we cover a lot of ground and see a lot of beautiful country. We’d love to have you out, and look forward to the possibility!
I’m not too surprised that happened, even some of the better sporting goods places are confused about what constitutes lead-free ammo. It’s also a bit hard to find lately, when I was getting ready to come down to Native Hunt a few weekends ago I had to settle for 130-grain .270 ammo because that’s all I could find.
I ended up using my .308 instead, so I didn’t have to shoot a round that I’m not used to. Still waiting for the meat processor to deliver my ham and sausage! We had a great time, really nice place!
“But silver tip doesn’t mean the bullets are made of silver for dogs sake” Now that’s funny! I don’t care who you are.
All joking aside though, I would really like to know who the vendor is that sold those guys that ammo so I can call em’ and give em’ a piece of my mind.
Thanks for stopping by Dayne, I hope you win the contest and are able to make it out to stay a spell.
I can understand the frustration that these guys felt, thats why I handload all my ammunition, that way I know what I am shooting and how it shoots.
Sorry to hear about the ammo mishap! However, I am not surpised that Native Hunt was prepared! My son and I were there 2 weeks ago, and although not everything was according to plan – The whole crew, Led by Sam specifically, jumped into action to make the experience one that My son and I will remember for years to come!! Not sure which was cooler, seing the smile on my son’s face as he realized he’d made a perfect shot from over 120yds on his first wild hog, or the excitement of the guides while they taught my eager son the fine art of cleaning that same hog!! Thanks to the whole crew – SAM, COLBY, SID, CHAD AND THE FIREMAN FROM CARMEL!! We’ll be back very soon!!
Michael, I know what store’s bag the ammo was in, but I’d kind of like to know for sure before we start slamming them. Might not hurt to check in with our hunters to see if they’d like to talk about it.
To the other commenters, thanks! Appreciate your dropping by and checking us out.
Yep, I am getting there with the hand loading myself Fred, just like packing your own parachute, that way nobody to blame but yourself when something goes wrong!
Phillip, to make it worse, the boxes that they brought, actually had a diagram of the bullet on the back of the box, which clearly showed and stated that it had a solid lead core…I have had shops trying to sell me stuff like this before…for the same price of those copper rounds…NOT something that makes me happy…
Sadly though, If the warden stops you with those lead bullets he will tell you that it was up to you to determine if they were the correct bullets or not.
I will most certainly double check the next time I make a purchase after this incident with these clients who were sold the wrong ammo Colby!
This is true michael, but remember that it is not illegal to possess lead ammo in the lead free zones, they actually have to catch you hunting with it, and prove that you were using it during your hunt…The truth is, all hunters have to be careful while purchasing “lead-free” ammo…They must all take the responsibility upon themselves to make sure they are actually being sold what they ask for…Its easy to tell if you know what youre looking for, but there are often rounds that look rather similar, and thus the controversy begins…
Good comments, all. I do totally agree that a big part of the responsibility should be on the hunter’s shoulders, however, in cases like our guys this past weekend where they are really brand new, they should be able to rely on the “expertise” of the ammo vendor with a certain level of confidence. It’s a shame, really, that more stores don’t take the time to properly educate their sales staff on things like this… but it really is a product of the decline of the hunting and shooting culture.
As to the law, as it’s written, it states that you may not possess BOTH the lead ammo AND the weapon to fire it WHILE HUNTING. That last part leaves some grey area around whether driving to and from the hunt is actually “hunting”, but most wardens aren’t gonna push that one unless they’re looking to jack you up for something.
Overall, it’s still a screwed up law, but we do have to obey it or pay the consequences.
Thanks for the article, I learned that you require lead-free ammo in your hunting place — as not all place have this requirement.
It will be very helpful if someone can give a little more details about the standard, name some major brands or manufacturers of those ammo…
Keith,
There’s a lot of information on this topic in several places. If you’d like to read up, I’ve written quite a bit on my personal blog… much of it is opinion, but I’ve also tried to document the issue as it has developed. http://californiahuntingtoday.com/hogblog/category/lead-ammo-ban/
If you have specific questions, please feel free to ask.